BIOGAS/FUEL

From: Carol DGilsen@aol.com 
Sent: 12 April 1999 08:02
Subject: Re: Standard 15 Use of Krsna's Properties - pasture and manure managem

[Text 2225942 from COM]

Greetings fellow Krishnites
To break the parasite infestation whenever possible collect and place all dung and urine from all animal and human sources in a bio-gas generator. The digester turns the dung into sterile compost all worms et killed, and as a by product produces a gas called methane which is half as hot as propane but you can still use it to cook or run a generator to produce electricity. It is free and cleans up the area the finished product is essentially sterile and can be spread on crops as an excellent fertilizer.
I can provide plans for any body who wants to try it. I brought up the use of human dung to Jayapataka swami and he said he had no problem in cooking with human produced bio-gas, when I was in Mayapur. We are planning to run a bio-gas generator run off human excreta to light up the park and some of the long building, plus clean up a huge potential health problem from the public toilet for pilgrims we can use the spent sludge to fertilize the flower beds in the park. I think that is a neat solution to a horrible problem. Of the public toilets next to Govindas restaurant, plus gets rid of the stench from that place!
Carol

From: Tribhangananda (das) ACBSP (GB) Tribhangananda.ACBSP@bbt.se 
Sent: 13 April 1999 00:35
Subject: Re: Standard 15 Use of Krsna's Properties - pasture and manure managem

[Text 2228617 from COM]

Dear Carol,

Thanks for the interesting text.

To break the parasite infestation whenever possible collect and place all dung and urine from all animal and human sources in a bio-gas generator. The digester turns the dung into sterile compost all worms et killed, and as a by product produces a gas called methane which is half as hot as propane but you can still use it to cook or run a generator to produce electricity. It is free and cleans up the area the finished product is essentially sterile and can be spread on crops as an excellent fertilizer. I can provide plans for any body who wants to try it.

Yes, please send them. I'm curious as to how you manage to collect, pressurize, bottle (or whatever) and regulate the gas at a flow useable for cooking or powering a gas generator. If it can be nicely utilized (safely from the point of view of gas storage and pathogens), especially without huge set-up costs, that would be a big plus. Is this for open-air cooking, or how is the burnt-off gas in terms of toxicity, etc?

your servant, Tribhangananda das

From: Hare Krsna dasi (Brunswick, Maine - USA) Hare.Krsna.dasi@bbt.se
Sent: 13 April 1999 16:31
Subject: Re: Standard 15 Use of Krsna's Properties - biogas digester

[Text 2231196 from COM]

"COM: Tribhangananda (das) ACBSP (GB)" wrote:

[Text 2228617 from COM]

Dear Carol,

Thanks for the interesting text.

To break the parasite infestation whenever possible collect and place all dung and urine from all animal and human sources in a bio-gas generator. The digester turns the dung into sterile compost all worms et killed, and as a by product produces a gas called methane which is half as hot as propane but you can still use it to cook or run a generator to produce electricity. It is free and cleans up the area the finished product is essentially sterile and can be spread on crops as an excellent fertilizer.
I can provide plans for any body who wants to try it.

Yes, please send them. I'm curious as to how you manage to collect, pressurize, bottle (or whatever) and regulate the gas at a flow useable for cooking or powering a gas generator. If it can be nicely utilized (safely from the point of view of gas storage and pathogens), especially without huge set-up costs, that would be a big plus. Is this for open-air cooking, or how is the burnt-off gas in terms of toxicity, etc?

 your servant, Tribhangananda das
 

I know that the ISKCON Mauritius farm used to have a biogas digester in the 1980s. Perhaps Samba prabhu can tell us about it. Are they still using it? If not, why not?

The U.N. has published a nice book showing the development of biogas digesters in about 50 different countries. The German development technology agency, GATE, also has a good book -- maybe they even have a website. China also used to have millions of biogas digesters. The advantage of their biogas digester is that it is small enough to be independently maintained by the individual family, and can be built without special technology.

My biggest reservation about biogas digesters is that the easiest way to gather cow manure is to keep the cows confined in a shed. This is not good for the health or the comfort of the cows. It is not Krsna's example either. The example Krsna set is that cows are taken to pasture in the morning and returned to the barn of their owner at night. Srila Prabhupada also made many statements stressing the importance of adequate pasture for the cows.

Nevertheless, if adequate precautions are taken to insure that the cows get sufficient pasture and are not made uncomfortable and unhealthy for the purpose of convenient manure gathering, it may still be possible to use a biogas digester.

your servant,

Hare Krsna dasi

From: Carol DGilsen@aol.com  
Subject: Re: Standard 15 Use of Krsna's Properties - biogas digester
Date: Friday, April 16, 1999 3:10 AM

[Text 2238576 from COM]

Please accept my humble obeisance's all glories to Sirla Prabhupada 
Gentleman You shouldn't lock up your cows. As a child I went out in the fields and gathered cow chips every day when I visited My grandmother in Florida, USA. A tropical area in the US. In two weeks, I would have gathered ten pickup trucks full of cow pies. I did that all by my self in about four hours a day. I was a little kid perhaps six or seven. My grandmother lived next to a huge (to me) field full of range cows, of evil disposition. They charged, I ran for my life. My uncle would park his old battered pick up truck in the fields. I collected cow pies. My reward ice cream and a candy bar for each filled pick up truck. If a little kid could collect them that easily so could you. But, If you put your cows in a barn at night, you shouldn't have any trouble collecting their offerings. A well placed concrete pad with a trench for urine would be good also. Urine is excellent for bio gas plants, full of nitrogen. Also human dung and urine composts just as well as cow pies. That can very easily be collected and placed in the bio gas plant. Flushing drinking water and good compost down the drain is offensive to me. If it has been through a human or animal it can go into a bio gas plant. Use everything Krishna gives us and if we can get multiple uses even better. Gas to fuel a generator (lights) or cooking fuel and compost pretty neat huh.
Humans by the way on the average produce forty-four ounces of dung and urine per day. Cows can produce thirty or forty pounds per day.
Hope that helps. Carol

From: Hare Krsna dasi (Brunswick, Maine - USA) Hare.Krsna.dasi@com.bbt.se 
Subject: Re: Standard 15 Use of Krsna's Properties - biogas digester
Date: Saturday, April 17, 1999 5:52 PM

[Text 2243152 from COM]

If you are prepared to put the work in, and have access to simple technology, then biogas is good as you have mentioned above. But if you really want to get to the root of simple living (which most of us don't seem to) then the patties used for fuel are definately the easiest.

Please, let's not forget the big danger of using cow patties for cooking fuel. That is: If too large a percentage of cow manure is converted into cooking fuel, it will rob the soil of valuable nutrients.

In general, the purpose of cow manure is to provide nitrogen to replenish or enrich the soil. When the patties are burnt -- the soil is robbed of its fertility because the nitrogen goes right into the air.

Nitrogen however, it not required for cooking. What is required is carbon compounds. With a biogas digester, the carbon compounds are burned for fuel, but the nitrogen component is captured in the slurry and can be returned to the soil.


When we talk about training ksatriyas, Srila Prabhupada mentions that they were trained in science. In a varnasrama society it is important that not only the vaisyas, but also the ksatriyas understand the important topic of how to maintain healthy soil.

I wish that all our gurukula children were trained to think in terms of carbon and nitrogen cycles. That way, they would understand that when you take certain chemicals out of the soil, you need to keep in mind how those chemicals will go back into the soil at a later point.

When a community focuses on growing crops for export, rather than for local consumption, this problem automatically arises. Usually it even arises with local consumption, because of improper management of human manure. But also we need to keep in mind that the soil can be robbed if we burn its products and by-products -- such as weeds, wood and manure (which is produced when a cow or human transforms crops from food into bodily products).

If only a very small percentage of manure is used for cooking, it's probably not be a problem, but if a large percentage is burned up as fuel, then it may contribute to the deterioration of soil fertility.

your servant,
Hare Krsna dasi

From: Rohita (Dasa) ACBSP (New Talavan MS - USA) talavan@com.org 
Subject: Re: Standard 15 Use of Krsna's Properties - biogas digester
Date: Sunday, April 18, 1999 1:10 PM

[Text 2244809 from COM]

If you are prepared to put the work in, and have access to simple technology, then biogas is good as you have mentioned above. But if you really want to get to the root of simple living (which most of us don't seem to) then the patties used for fuel are definately the easiest.
 
Please, let's not forget the big danger of using cow patties for cooking fuel. That is: If too large a percentage of cow manure is converted into cooking fuel, it will rob the soil of valuable nutrients. In general, the purpose of cow manure is to provide nitrogen to replenish or enrich the soil. When the patties are burnt -- the soil is robbed of its fertility because the nitrogen goes right into the air.

Plants all require nitrogen that regulates both the activities of all plants and the animals that feed on them. It is the central building block of all physiological cycles. 

This is especially true in areas of sandy soil where every little bit of organic matter in the soil is required in order to hold water in the top few productive inches of the soil.

Nitrogen however, it not required for cooking. What is required is carbon compounds. With a biogas digester, the carbon compounds are burned for fuel, but the nitrogen component is captured in the slurry and can be returned
to the soil.

Care must be exercised that this slurry does not contain high concentrations of such minerals as aluminium and sodium as they will interfere with the energy transfer cycles within the soil.

When cows are kept for long periods in an area to facilitate the collection of their manure, you are altering the environment of the cow away from a natural and simple life style. The same is true when you abandon grazing for `lot' or `bunker feeding'. When there is a shortage of cow feed, then one must use such methods to maintain the animals. However, this should only be for a short temporary or seasonal period.

Just what results when you confine animals?
1. Accumulation of byproducts - leads to pollution of that soil and air space. That portion of the ecosystem has to change. If you do not remove those byproducts (dung and urine), that area of contamination will grow larger. That area stops being agriculturally productive!
2. Feed has to be harvested and brought to the cows. Various microbes, not all of them good, will accumulate there where feeding takes place. In addition, insects will be drawn to that locality, many of which are carriers of disease or who will create an environment in which disease will result.
3. You will need to provide an exercise area to keep less active muscles in shape.
4. You will have to become expert in nutrition and mineral balance, be able to diagnose mineral deficiency (excesses) diseases. Cows immune systems will not receive the proper building blocks and you will have to act in their place providing antibiotics and vaccines.
5. All of the above requires expenditures of money to accomplish or prevent particular conditions that are unfavorable to your viewed endeavour. It takes money to make money. Moreover, to pay for it the most logical method is to have the cows make the money. Most profitable method of them doing it is slaughter of their bodies. 

When we talk about training ksatriyas, Srila Prabhupada mentions that they were trained in science. In a Varnasrama society, it is important that not only the vaisyas, but also the ksatriyas understand the important topic of how to maintain healthy soil.

Nicely said. The vaisyas intent should be toward production of foodstuffs, for animals and man, not towards the accumulation of wealth. Money maybe required in maintaining the system, to acquire it by taxation and distribute it according to the betterment of society as a whole. That area of endeavours the ksatriya must control and in order to do it wisely he needs to have a working knowledge of the principles underlying food productivity. A Vaisya decides that he will generate some capital by bunker feeding his cows so it is easy to collect the manure. The ksatriya in turn must understand that that farmers production will drop, a close eye kept on health conditions and he needs to learn how to regulate that business. This he does by placing health restrictions accompanied by permits. And so on, there are repercussions upon the rest of society. By his limiting how many do this kind of business he is maintaining a high level of production with low input, he is also keeping the areas he has to police at a manageable level. 

I wish that all our gurukula children were trained to think in terms of carbon and nitrogen cycles. That way, they would understand that when you take certain chemicals out of the soil, you need to keep in mind how those chemicals will go back into the soil at a later point.

Yes, this is needed, but it is not needed that everyone learns this, those who are going to become one of the three varnas, Brahmana, Ksatriya or Vaisya. Brahmanas are the watchdogs of order within society. It is their duty to point out this area of disruption. It is the ksatriyas duty to regulate it and the duty of the vaisyas to utilize it. Sudras have no need of this knowledge or an aptitude to understand the ramifications thereof.

You must also not forget the calcium cycle. With out this element plants are unable to function, they are not even able to stand up or stay unified, and they fall apart. 

When a community focuses on growing crops for export, rather than for local consumption, this problem automatically arises. Usually it even arises with local consumption, because of improper management of human manure. But also we need to keep in mind that the soil can be robbed if we burn its products and by-products -- such as weeds, wood and manure (which is produced when a cow or human transforms crops from food into bodily products).

In addition, we need to keep in mind that the soil can be robbed if we burn its products and by-products. Such products as weeds, wood and manure, which is produced when a cow or human transforms crops from food into bodily products. The purpose of agricultural burning is to remove dense accumulation of organic matter to facilitate the quick growth of plants. By this is meant when there is a lot of material on the soil surface the sun can not penetrate this covering to warm the soil so that seeds may germinate. Burning allows this `shade' to be removed and provides various minerals that were locked in that organic material. Seeds can now germinate but there is a lack of nitrogen, so there will be an initial growth and then the plant will slow until it can transform from the air the needed nitrogen. If it had also a soil form of nitrogen, there would be no slowing of growth.

If only a very small percentage of manure is used for cooking, it's probably not be a problem, but if a large percentage is burned up as fuel, then it may contribute to the deterioration of soil fertility.

To reiterate, manure on pasture do not touch, manure in `holding lot' turn into compost for human food crops and if you are looking for production of biogas this should be a side line not the main line of endeavour.

Ys,
Rohita dasa

From: Radha Krsna (das) ACBSP GB (Great Britain) Radha.Krsna.ACBSP.GB@bbt.se 
Sent: 27 April 1999 22:13
Subject: Re: Standard 15 Use of Krsna's Properties - biogas digester

[Text 2273488 from COM]

Hare Krsna Dasi wrote:
Please, let's not forget the big danger of using cow patties for cooking fuel. That is: If too large a percentage of cow manure is converted into cooking fuel, it will rob the soil of valuable nutrients.

In general, the purpose of cow manure is to provide nitrogen to replenish or enrich the soil. When the patties are burnt -- the soil is robbed of fertility because the nitrogen goes right into the air.

Sir Albert stated, as quoted before, that if you know how to make compost you can increase you manurial output by 5-8 times therefore the remainder can be used for fuel, which is much better that coal or trees. Gas can only be used where it is practicable and cost effective to lay pipes. SO many situations will not be able to use Bio-gas.
Also 'Lost Science of Organic Cultivation' (Howard) states that only a percentage of 0.8-1.0% of total nitrogen is required for optimum crop production, but that must be in an available condition i.e., through its proper composition in the compost heap.

Please note: for those who haven't read this book. The application of only a little amount of this material to land will increase micro-organism activity. This is now the forefront of modern technology in agriculture; the purpose of products like American made E2001 (bugs) will do the same thing, but costs £50.00 a litre! (enough for hectare).

Rohita das wrote:
This is especially true in areas of sandy soil where every little bit of organic matter in the soil is required in order to hold water in the top few productive inches of the soil.

The only way to hold water in top soil is with organic matter in the soil that is decomposed into humus, the main moisture retaining factor in soil. This is easiest achieved by compost manufacture as it increases cow manurial output 5-8 times! In Lost Science.. I relate how I came across bags of dried cow dung lying in the sand at the Yamuna in the hopeless attempts at cultivation..

From: Noelene Hawkins niscala99@hotmail.com 
Sent: 29 April 1999 04:04
Subject: Dung or digesters?

[Text 2336420 from COM]

Dear Prabhus,
PAMHO, AGTSP! Just bringing up about cow patties and biogas digesters again! ...thought I was a bit fanatical, and Hare Krsna prabhu, please accept my humble obeisances and apologies- your contribution to the cause of simple living is peerless! Please let me know if I can somehow be of service.
About the patties, I mentioned to Pancaratna prabhu, but I thought I'd put it on com too, that there's a book called "Bread from Stones" by Hansel, published in 1890, that establishes that plants actually don't need to take nitrogen from the soil. They get it from the atmosphere. High nitrogen levels cause lush growth similar to adding super phosphate, but this is at the expense of the uptake of TRACE ELEMENTS by the plant. It is these trace elements that are important to our health and that of our cows, therefore they must be present in the plants we eat. They are NOT destroyed by burning and are present in the ash.
If this is true, its a big plus for the vedic model of complete independence of machine technology, and complete dependence on what the cow and bull provide. Before y'all think I'm getting fanatical again, the steel etc. used in a biogas thing mightn't be so bad, since in vedic times there was mining of metals. The point is to keep it as simple as possible or practical. Therefore our plows for our bulls are steel, and there's no problem with that. And bio-gas digesters may use it but are they practical is the point. If there's a simpler way that doesn't cause problems with simple living e.g. by decreasing soil fertility, then we opt for the simple way- to be free from dependence on the machine civilization- which is described by Srila Prabhupada (many times) as hellish, and directly opposed to the proper cultivation of the human spirit- self-realization.
S.P.: Don't be allured by this machine civilization- this soul-killing civilization- especially the European countries...you can have a cottage anywhere and grow your own food. Am I right?
Dependence on machine has directly resulted in cow slaughter, as excellently explained by Hare Krsna dasi in her articles. This cow slaughter, Srila Prabhupada mentions, is the cause of all problems in human society. In this regard I refer to Pancharatna's mention of a shortage of dung in Bengal, which has led to decreased soil fertility, which might indicate the necessity of bio-gas digesters. The root of the problem though is that there is large-scale cow-slaughter in this state (correct me if I'm wrong but it is one of the 2 states in India where this is allowed). But even all over India, its a common thing that wherever the old cows/bulls are unproductive, they are let loose and generally taken by Moslems for slaughter. This slaughter has led to a shortage of dung, and a myriad of problems has resulted, which are described in "Dung is a Gold Mine" and "Dung, Dung, Dung" (printed in India)- these books are the perfect purports to the above statement of Srila Prabhupada's ("cow slaughter is the cause of all problems in human society") Reasons given are environmental damage (deforestation or forced cutting of trees for cooking fuel caused by dung shortage; dung shortage leading to soil fertility decrease; many others); increase in unemployment and poverty levels and increase in social problems. All this information is presented very scientifically, with facts and figures, tables of statistics etc. These are really excellent books for devotees, especially in India, especially dealing with rural communities. If anyone is interested and needs the ISBN's, I can get them from Lagudi prabhu. Fact is old cows are valuable- in India they eat practically anything and turn it into a very valuable product- dung, but the Indians have been brainwashed into thinking they're a burden. Without this dung, though the problems are massive. This and the book by Hansel, Lagudi has details of (I think) Hope you find this non-fanatically OK- 

YS, 
Niscala dd.

From: Noelene Hawkins niscala99@hotmail.com 
Sent: 30 April 1999 06:28
Subject: Re: Dung or digesters?

[Text 2337361 from COM]

Noelene Hawkins wrote:

[Text 2276372 from COM]

Dear Prabhus,
PAMHO, AGTSP! Just bringing up about cow patties and biogas digesters again! ...thought I was a bit fanatical, and Hare Krsna prabhu, please accept my humble obeisances and apologies- your contribution to the cause of simple living is peerless! Please let me know if I can somehow be of service.
About the patties, I mentioned to Pancaratna prabhu, but I thought I'd put it on com too, that there's a book called "Bread from Stones" by Hansel, published in 1890, that establishes that plants actually don't need to take nitrogen from the soil. They get it from the atmosphere. High nitrogen levels cause lush growth similar to adding superphosphate, but this is at the expense of the uptake of TRACE ELEMENTS by the plant. It is these trace elements that are important to our health and that of our cows, therefore they must be present in the plants we eat. They are NOT destroyed by burning and are present in the ash.

Another very important aspect of composted manure is that it conditions the earth so that it will retain moisture better. When Krsna was on earth, Vrndavana was very lush. I have not been to Vrndavana personally, but I understand that much of it is now like a desert, very dry and sandy.

To me, this indicates that over the centuries, animal and human manure have not been returned to the soil.

How was it though, that 5000 years ago, it was a lush environment? There were no bio-gas digesters then, and cooking was probably done by dung, as if they'd used wood then there wouldn't be much of a Vrindavan forest after a while. I've done studies in organic farming, and use cow dung to grow my own crops, and I agree it is an excellent conditioner for the soil , but according to this book, high levels of nitrogen, as is present in the slurry from the digester, cause plants to grow lushly but at the expense of the uptake of trace elements by the plant, trace elements necessary for our good health. It may however be necessary as a SHORT term solution for really poor soil, and also where population density is very high, such as in India. If however, cow slaughter in India is stopped, then enough dung would be created eventually,to NATURALLY condition the soil, while providing enough cooking fuel to halt the rapid deforestation (by people needing wood for fuel) which is causing so many problems in India's environment. Also MANY other problems. This is all detailed in the book "Dung is a Gold Mine" Therefore, educating Indian people to seeing the value of COMPLETE cow protection, as the key to becoming free from most of their economic problems- is probably the best long-term solution.

Please read *Topsoil and Civilization* by Vernon Carter and Tom Dale and also Sir Albert Howard's *Agricultural Testament* and other titles. Then you will see how important manure is to condition the soil.

I agree, I use it myself.

At Gita-nagari I remember that when we had a drought, all the potato plants died, except for two that were growing over the composted cow manure. Manure conditions the soil so that plants can survive and flourish. I very much doubt that simple ash can accomplish the same results.

No, composted cow manure is wonderful, I agree, but so is the ash which is full of trace elements. There are other ways to increase organic matter in the soil,too, such as green manure crops, if organic matter is in shortage, due to burning too many patties.

Also, I just read in the *Small Farmers Journal* that fertilizer is America's #1 export to India. If cow manure were being put back into the earth at a sufficient rate, there would be no need to import fertilizer.

They are killing the source of top-quality fertilizer- the old cows and bulls- and importing fertilizer at high prices I bet that the poor village farmer can't afford! Kali-yuga!

Dung or Digesters? This still does not mean that I am necessarily endorsing biogas digesters. I think the decision has to be made on a case-by-case basis by devotees who have carefully educated themselves on all the factors involved. Cooking with cow manure patties sounds great to me, as long as the majority of the manure is being returned to the soil.

For India, this would be only possible, unless you want huge deforestation, by culling the slaughter of old cows. India's ecology goes back millions of years, to when cows were never slaughtered, and the vedas describe that the earth was lush at that time. Srila Prabhupada describes cow-slaughter as being the cause of all problems in today's society. This includes lack of soil fertility, and this book is a perfect purport to that, using well-researched facts and figures. In the west, with our much-lesser population density, it should be easy to get enough dung for fuel and still put much back into the soil.

From: Radha Krsna (das) ACBSP GB (Great Britain) Radha.Krsna.ACBSP.GB@bbt.se 
Sent: 01 May 1999 22:04
Subject: Re: Standard 15 Use of Krsna's Properties - repaying Mother Nature

[Text 2282484 from COM]

Hare Krsna dasi wrote:

Please, let's not forget the big danger of using cow patties for cooking fuel. That is: If too large a percentage of cow manure is converted into cooking fuel, it will rob the soil of valuable nutrients.
 

Where did you get this information from?
Is this statement corroborated by any scientific authority?

PLEASE GIVE THIS TO SYAMASUNDARA DAS IN MAYAPUR AND POST THIS IN MAURITIUS TEMPLE.

Sir Albert Howard, whom you originally quoted to us all, has stated, as you must have heard by now, that two thirds of cow dung should be used as fuel, the remainder can increase manurial output 5-8 times by composting.. with correct proportions of all manner of other garbage, including human stool, as we did in India 1996-7.

It is essential that a sustainable fuel source be sought. When there were plenty more cows in India than possibly today the above statement was made. If you have less cows today then you need less land with which to feed them, But there are definitely a lot more people. With the amount of people who actually are going to use cow dung as fuel and that is likely outside of India to only be devotees! I think the same equation should still apply. Applying animal dung to land alone is extremely wasteful in lieu of the circumstances we find ourselves in today, especially as we have so few cows about.. Enough nitrogen for crop production can easily be gained by proper agricultural management. This understood by scientific evidence. Only .08 - 1.00% total nitrogen is required for optimum crop production. Any further amount is certain to be lost in the ground through leaching.

Most of the main ecological disasters we find in this world are caused by man and his misuse of Natures abundance. The most important thing to be done in order to preserve the source of life on this planet is to produce soil and that is done best by creating a thriving top soil which in turn makes more top soil through the action of active micro-organisms.

This is achieved by the formation of humus. BUT IN NATURE this is a very slow process. (1 inch in 10,000 years?) And the best of Natures ways to produce humus is by the action of trees and good ground cover.

Here are some quotes by the founder of the Soil Association:

Lets start with an area in Southern United States:
One of the most comprehensive surveys in this connection is by Jacks and Whyte in the RAPE OF THE EARTH. (It is common knowledge in agricultural circles that the removal of trees is the biggest cause of the beginning of soil erosion and desertification.)

'On 56.4% of the land surface of the USA...a quarter or more of the soil has been lost. The amount of soil reaching the sea annually is between 500 and a 1,000 million tons, or 21 times the amount removed by cropping.' (this is interesting to note.) [Even organic farms can loose as much as 5cm of soil a year through cropping] [real organic farming is not just a question of farming without chemicals...]to continue... '15 million acres have been totally destroyed, but this is an insignificant part of the story, for it is sheet erosion that is doing the bulk of the damage to the land. The Missouri basin has lost an average of 7 inches of top soil in 24 years. Professor Chamberlain has estimated the mean rate of soil formation at only 1 inch in ten thousand years.' 'In California and elsewhere the new deserts are are called 'dustbowls'. One has advanced as much as 40 miles in one year, destroying 2,500 farms. Efforts to stop it by tree planting alone have failed.

'If erosion represents the death of the soil....how much of the land is partway towards death? The question would be pertinent if the rate of erosion were steady. But it is not steady it is increasing very rapidly all over the world. PROBABLY MORE SOIL HAS BEEN LOST SINCE 1914 THAN IN THE WHOLE PREVIOUS HISTORY OF THE WORLD. When we consider... the fact that traces of high civilization were found in areas that are now desert, the probability of his past guilt becomes greater.'

'In the West over grazing and fires have have removed the natural cover. Obviously every other problem America is faced sinks into insignificance in comparison with this one. It is already too late to do more than save something of the wreck. Much of the same is true in many other countries.' 'Australia is probably going faster than America, but has only been under civilized influence for one third of the period....The wheat lands of NSW are said to be getting visibly worse each year.' 

'In Africa, the Sahara is growing southward at a rate of over half a mile a year, the Turkana desert eastward at 6 or 7 miles a year. But the whole continent is suffering from erosion in every known form, the extension of deserts and the creation of new ones. It is well known that Kenya is rapidly becoming infertile and is beginning to suffer from locusts. This is no new phenomenon in Africa, for it is known that the northern Sahara was once the granary of Rome and in Roman times the Congo forest reached nearly to Khartoum, from which it is now separated by 1,500 miles of desert...Erosion is not new but the whole process has been accelerated in the last few years.'

'China represents the best and the worst examples of agriculture.. The Yellow River carries down 2,500 million tons of soils a year; the amount equal to one foot thick over 2,000 square miles. It's bed gets silted up between embankments, and is not cleared as it used to be (with which they made compost with abundant green clover to replenish the land from which the crops were taken). These embankments must be continuously raised so its bed is well above the surrounding land. Nothing can save that land or its people when an embankment bursts. ALL THAT IS LARGELY BECAUSE FUEL IS NOW SCARCE IN CHINA AND THE HILLS HAVE BEEN DENUDED TO PROVIDE IT. (and I know the same is true of India) In this way what was once the hunting grounds of Genghis Khan has been turned into the Gobi desert.'





There you have it.
One must therefore keep lots of cows, and farm properly, in order to prevent this situation occurring. We must become responsible custodians of Krsna's land.

We don't have lots of cows these days due to obvious reasons. But as one company has stated today: 'The world is drowning in its own poisons'


Therefore I and many other companies see the importance of scientifically composting these wastes to reduce the poisonous effects (as far as possible). For even cow dung left in heaps and urine washed away in drains causes poisonous run off into water courses and ground water and is indeed illegal in the U.K. We should try and understand how to avoid these causes of poisoning ourselves and our children and teach them how to leave more soil than we take away through cropping.

This is sustainable agriculture. If we are depleting we are not sustainable. By taking crops alone we are depleting Mother Nature. Therefore we are robbing Her.


'Man sets about his desert making in various ways. He alters the texture of the soil by using up humus and failing to replace it - by failing to feed the soil with organic matter; livestock are the great converters of otherwise unwanted organic matter to a form in which it can be used by plants. Stockless farming, understocking, burning straw, etc., are all cases of failure to observe the "law of return" which is the essence of farming. Only by faithfully returning to the soil in due course (meaning in a fit condition for the soil to digest it) everything that has come from it, can fertility be made permanent and the earth be made to yield a genuine increase.' (Lord Northbourne, Look to The Land, 1930)


I was going to end there, but then here's another one which I think backs up Srila Prabhupada's comments on later occurrences in this Yuga:

'If mankind cannot devise and enforce ways of dealing with the earth, which will preserve the source of life, we must look forward to a time, remote though it may be yet clearly discernable when our kind, having wasted its inheritance, will fade from the earth because of the ruin it has accomplished.' (Professor N.S. Shaler, Harvard University, 1896)

'But please let's not forget' we are SUPPOSED to be entering the golden age of 10,000 years before that.

From: Rohita (Dasa) ACBSP (New Talavan MS - USA) talavan@com.org 
Sent: 02 May 1999 14:31
Subject: Re: Standard 15 Use of Krsna's Properties - repaying Mother Nature

[Text 2283693 from COM]

Hare Krsna dasi wrote: 
Please, let's not forget the big danger of using cow patties for cooking fuel. That is: If too large a percentage of cow manure is converted into cooking fuel, it will rob the soil of valuable nutrients. 

Radha Krishna's reply:
Where did you get this information from? Is this statement corroborated by any scientific authority?

PLEASE GIVE THIS TO SYAMASUNDARA DAS IN MAYAPUR AND POST THIS IN MAURITIUS TEMPLE.

Sir Albert Howard, whom you originally quoted to us all, has stated, as you must have heard by now, that two thirds of cow dung should be used as fuel, the remainder can increase manurial output 5-8 times by composting.. with correct proportions of all manner of other garbage, including human stool, as we did in India 1996-7. It is essential that a sustainable fuel source be sought. When there were plenty more cows in India than possibly today the above statement was made. If you have less cows today then you need less land with which to feed them, But there are definitely a lot more people. 

Comment: 
And with more people then you need more food, which if you do not mechanize then you must keep more people on the land and produce more cows and bullocks to use for producing. You can not get away from this cycle. We have compounded our problem instead of engaging more people in agriculture and the ancillary essential activities and we have turned toward mechanization so we can do various money making endeavors. This is alright if the money is used to preach or buying land (for production) but it is going toward feathering the nest.

Radha Krsna:
With the amount of people who actually are going to use cow dung as fuel and that is likely outside of India to only be devotees! I think the same equation should still apply. Applying animal dung to land alone is extremely wasteful in lieu of the circumstances we find ourselves in today, especially as we have so few cows about.. 

Comment:
If we have so few cows why is ISKCON on the program of limiting calf production? We are thinking we have too many cows, instead of thinking that more people must be engaged in agriculture pursuits and preaching. We also have a lot of unused land because there is no one to work it. 

In New Talavan we have 1250 acres, 30 is growing some crops, one person part time engaged (using tractor) others are engaged in working so they can build nice house - they are not having daily preaching engagement! Four cows milking, one bull and 124 idle cows and oxen! Other ISKCON farms are in the same situation. People are buying more than ½ acre (that is all that is needed if you are buying essentials). So they are buying up land to make park or just grow like jungle.

Radha Krsna:
Enough nitrogen for crop production can easily be gained by proper agricultural management. This understood by scientific evidence. Only .08 - 1.00% total nitrogen is required for optimum crop production. Any further amount is certain to be lost in the ground through leaching. 

Comment;
Unless you increase the fibre and cation content in the soil.

Radha Krsna:
Most of the main ecological disasters we find in this world are caused by man and his misuse of Natures abundance. The most important thing to be done in order to preserve the source of life on this planet is to produce soil and that is done best by creating a thriving top soil which in turn makes more top soil through the action of active micro-organisms. 

Comment;
What you are saying is true, but there needs to be a change in heart both for preaching or production (essentials- food, clothing and shelter) and away from this artificial society.

Radha Krsna:
This is achieved by the formation of humus. BUT IN NATURE this is a very slow process. (1 inch in 10,000 years?) And the best of Natures ways to produce humus is by the action of trees and good ground cover. 

Comment;
This is the source for increase the fibre content, trees - decaying leaves, dead branches and roots. They produce this every year. Our agricultural fields need trees to be planted for the purification of the air, soil and water system; but most of all to increase our soil fibre content.

Here are some quotes by the founder of the Soil Association: 
Lets start with an area in Southern United States: 
One of the most comprehensive surveys in this connection is by Jacks and Whyte in the RAPE OF THE EARTH. (It is common knowledge in agricultural circles that the removal of trees is the biggest cause of the beginning of soil erosion and desertification.) 
'On 56.4% of the land surface of the USA...a quarter or more of the soil has been lost. The amount of soil reaching the sea annually is between 500 and a 1,000 million tons, or 21 times the amount removed by cropping.' (this is interesting to note.) [Even organic farms can loose as much as 5cm of soil a year through cropping] [real organic farming is not just a question of farming without chemicals...]to continue... '15 million acres have been totally destroyed, but this is an insignificant part of the story, for it is sheet erosion that is doing the bulk of the damage to the land. The Missouri basin has lost an average of 7 inches of top soil in 24 years. Professor Chamberlain has estimated the mean rate of soil formation at only 1 inch in ten thousand years.' In California and elsewhere the new deserts are are called 'dustbowls'. One has advanced as much as 40 miles in one year, destroying 2,500 farms.
Efforts to stop it by tree planting alone have failed.  'If erosion represents the death of the soil....how much of the land is partway towards death? The question would be pertinent if the rate of erosion were steady. But it is not steady it is increasing very rapidly all over the world. PROBABLY MORE SOIL HAS BEEN LOST SINCE 1914 THAN IN THE WHOLE PREVIOUS HISTORY OF THE WORLD. When we consider... the fact that traces of high civilization were found in areas that are now desert, the probability of his past guilt becomes greater.'  'In the West over grazing and fires have have removed the natural cover. Obviously every other problem America is faced sinks into insignificance in comparison with this one. It is already too late to do more than save something of the wreck. Much of the same is true in many other countries.' 'Australia is probably going faster than America, but has only been under civilized influence for one third of the period....The wheat lands of NSW are said to be getting visibly worse each year.' 

Comment:
Coupled with trees incorporated into a properly managed grazing system and a society that is agrarian centred is the only hope of turning the tide that we do not follow many other civilizations of the past that have fallen.

'In Africa, the Sahara is growing southward at a rate of over half a mile a year, the Turkana desert eastward at 6 or 7 miles a year. But the whole continent is suffering from erosion in every known form, the extension of deserts and the creation of new ones. It is well known that Kenya is rapidly becoming infertile and is beginning to suffer from locusts. This is no new phenomenon in Africa, for it is known that the northern Sahara was once the granary of Rome and in Roman times the Congo forest reached nearly to Khartoum, from which it is now separated by 1,500 miles of desert...Erosion is not new but the whole process has been accelerated in the last few years.'  'China represents the best and the worst examples of agriculture.. The Yellow River carries down 2,500 million tons of soils a year; the amount equal to one foot thick over 2,000 square miles. It's bed gets silted up between embankments, and is not cleared as it used to be (with which they made compost with abundant green clover to replenish the land from which the crops were taken). These embankments must be continuously raised so its bed is well above the surrounding land. Nothing can save that land or its people when an embankment bursts. ALL THAT IS LARGELY BECAUSE FUEL IS NOW SCARCE IN CHINA AND THE HILLS HAVE BEEN DENUDED TO PROVIDE IT. (and I know the same is true of India) In this way what was once the hunting grounds of Genghis Khan has been turned into the Gobi desert.' 

There you have it. One must therefore keep lots of cows, and farm properly, in order to prevent this situation occurring. We must become responsible custodians of Krsna's land. 

Comment:
Yes, lots of cows - that is way Krsna had so many - and everyone (most of society) engaged in agricultural pursuits.

We don't have lots of cows these days due to obvious reasons. But as one company has stated today: 'The world is drowning in its own poisons' 

Therefore I and many other companies see the importance of scientifically composting these wastes to reduce the poisonous effects (as far as possible).  For even cow dung left in heaps and urine washed away in drains causes poisonous run off into water courses and ground water and is indeed illegal in the U.K. We should try and understand how to avoid these causes of poisoning
ourselves and our children and teach them how to leave more soil than we take away through cropping. This is sustainable agriculture. If we are depleting we are not sustainable. By taking crops alone we are depleting Mother Nature. Therefore we are robbing Her. 

'Man sets about his desert making in various ways. He alters the texture of the soil by using up humus and failing to replace it - by failing to feed the soil with organic matter; livestock are the great converters of otherwise unwanted organic matter to a form in which it can be used by plants. Stockless farming, under stocking, burning straw, etc., are all cases of failure to observe the "law of return" which is the essence of farming. Only by faithfully returning to the soil in due course (meaning in a fit condition for the soil to digest it) everything that has come from it, can fertility be made permanent and the earth be made to yield a genuine increase.' (Lord Northbourne, Look to The Land, 1930) 

I was going to end there, but then here's another one which I think backs up Srila Prabhupada's comments on later occurrences in this Yuga:  'If mankind cannot devise and enforce ways of dealing with the earth, which will preserve the source of life, we must look forward to a time, remote though it may be yet clearly discernable when our kind, having wasted its inheritance, will fade from the earth because of the ruin it has accomplished.' (Professor N.S. Shaler, Harvard University, 1896)  'But please let's not forget' we are SUPPOSED to be entering the golden age of 10,000 years before that. 

Comment:
We need to increase our Krsna consciousness and that of others (preaching) and secure the land from its rape and the misuse of the cows (producing). 

Ys, 
Rohita dasa

From: Taraka dasa Tarakadas@aol.com 
Sent: 27 May 1999 09:40
Subject: Re:Another angle on biogas...and patties

[Text 2350402 from COM]

Dear Prabhus: 
Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. 
Regarding gobar gas, I thought it worth mentioning the following: While methane digesters may be more ugra-karma than we would like to demonstrate in our ideal of simplicity, it has a value beyond fuel production which may be worthwhile to consider. Our interest in protecting Krsna's cows extends not only to those cows who are under the care of the devotees. How do we convince the average dairyman not to slaughter his dry cows and bull calves? They are not likely to consider such a proposition until we can show them that it is economically advantageous to keep the cows alive. Potentially, a methane plant can fuel and heat a dairy operation and still leave the dairyman with the fertilizer he depends on. If at some time petro-fuels become scarce, methane can be used. This was done throughout Europe very successfully during W.W.II saving many from starvation. Cow manure, lots of it, made it possible to continue large scale grain production. Even a dry cow became useful for more that meat.
But getting back to the modern dairyman: While working with Balabhadra Prabhu, I started researching methane production. I tried to arrange to do a tour of the biogas research facilities of Ithaca University in NY, one of many projects making great advances in biogas technology. They informed me that their facility had been purchased (bought out) by Agway, and so a tour was not possible. Why did Agway do this? It was in their interest to suppress a competing technology. Agway is in the business of selling, among other things, farm fuels. Some one who produced and marketed a turnkey methane plant that tied directly into a dairyman's automated manure management system producing all the energy required to run the dairy operation (compressors, lights, pumps, water heaters, barn cleaners, milk coolers, etc.) and yielding fertilizer, the nutrients of which would be more readily available to the soil, would not only make a fortune, but would also take a chunk out of the profits of the local utility co. and companies like Agway. The real point here is that if dairies could operate without energy costs by keeping cows alive at relatively little cost, they would do it. Lot's of researchers are banking on this idea. Many other universities and companies are currently researching biogas, finding ways to maximize a plant's efficiency. While biogas production is not the simplest technology, it's not very complicated either. Biogas plants are used extensively throughout China and many third world countries where it provides not only a productive means of managing animal manures, but human waste as well. Many of these plants are simple enough in their design and construction that simple villagers can build, maintain and repair them using only the materials supplied by Krsna through the land. What is required is some knowledge, but not that much. But anyway, it wasn't my intention to make a case for biogas. That would become a rather lengthy discourse and while I think I could make a convincing argument, the fact is, I'm not sure it's what we should do for the sake of energy production. I do, however believe that it may be an important means to demonstrate the value of keeping cows alive, and that's my real point. Utility is the principle here. In contrast to this there's another downside which is what would happen when this technology is applied to the beef industry!
Regarding gobar patties as fuel; while serving in India (1976-77) I read news articles indicating that researchers found that the smoke of burning gobar patties for cooking was responsible for eye problems such as cataracts as well as a variety of respiratory illnesses. They could be wrong of course, but it's something to consider nonetheless. Nothing is perfect in the material world, in fact, it's engineered to be that way.
Alas, I am a man of very little brain. Sudra that I am, I have no business trying to make important decisions. My only value will be if I can somehow assist the rest of you Prabhus. My humble apologies if these issues were already discussed. Regrettably, it's been difficult for me to keep current on the gobar/biogas discussions due to illness. Thanks for your time. 
YS, Taraka dasa

From: Radha Krsna (das) ACBSP GB (Great Britain) Radha.Krsna.ACBSP.GB@bbt.se 
Sent: 28 May 1999 11:05
Subject: Re:Another angle on biogas...and patties

[Text 2353655 from COM]

Taraka das wrote:

Regarding gobar patties as fuel; while serving in India (1976-77) I read news articles indicating that researchers found that the smoke of burning gobar patties for cooking was responsible for eye problems such as cataracts as well as a variety of respiratory illnesses. They could be wrong of course, but it's something to consider nonetheless. Nothing is perfect in the material world, in fact, it's engineered to be that way.

Interesting discussions.

I would disagree with what you found in the news articles re cow dung smoke.

When I was in Calcutta printing my book I met a boy in the park at Lake Avenue. He had severe cataracts in both eyes. He was continually screaming and moaning, always hungry, a distraught figure of humanity. I took him and his family to the Ramakrsna Mission hospital where the doctor gave injections. The doctor said that this boy was suffering from severe vitamin deficiency syndrome. And that the problem was so advanced that even if they had the money to operate it would be too late to save his vision.
Afterwards I took them out to get a taxi back to the park and we stopped to rest at a food stand. I ordered them all puri and subjee. The boy got it in his hands and forced it into his mouth regardless the fact it was burning hot. He ate it so fast it was painful to see.

I believe from research also that deficiency of proper food diet is the cause of such ailments, not the burning of cow-dung as the papers may like us to believe.

From: Samba (das) SDG (Mauritius) Samba.SDG@bbt.se 
Sent: 28 July 1999 04:55
Subject: Re: Dung or digesters?

[Text 2511006 from COM]

How was it though, that 5000 years ago, it was a lush environment? There were no bio-gas digesters then, and cooking was probably done by dung, as if they'd used wood then there wouldn't be much of a Vrindavan forest after a while.